That's not a rebuttal to the parent's argument. For all we know, the homeless residents of Vancouver could be far more numerous (or worse-off) without the safety net of universal health care.

The parent's argument was "A universal health care system would probably fix a lot of this"

I rebutted with an example of a country with universal healthcare that still has a large homeless problem. I have no doubt that homeless residents of Vancouver have better access to healthcare. I'm just saying universal healthcare will NOT fix a lot of this.

Your comment was not a rebuttal. It was a logical fallacy, and you haven't shown what you think you've shown ("universal healthcare will NOT fix a lot of this").

Canada's healthcare system could be making the situation in Vancouver much better than it otherwise would be. The OP can be correct, even if homelessness is getting worse in Vancouver.

I guess it depends on how you define "a lot of this". I took it to mean homelessness. If I am correct, then it was a rebuttal.

Hi refurb,

Thanks for bringing up the point about the homelessness and the health care. Its a solid thought to bring to attention.

Sincerely,

Guy who does not give a shit if its a rebuttal or not :)

Article lists 2,650 people as the estimate of homeless in Vancouver, which has population of 603k people as of 2011. Compare that to Santa Monica, CA, where they estimate between 2300 and 3000 homeless, against a population of 90k people total as of 2011. (Source: http://www.opcc.net/tabid/255/Default.aspx)

Clearly there is a difference in the orders of magnitude. Now, Santa Monica has well funded program to help, provide shelter, etc. The city is very safe and full of tourists, making even panhandling an ok way to make a living. All this definitely attracts more homeless, BUT, according to the article above 24% have mental issues and 54% have drug issues (the two overlap). If we could get 54% off the street, it would make a huge difference not only to them, but to the community. I for one don't enjoy being harassed when trying to enjoy my weekend at the beach.

Unfortunately, this discussion is purely academic in nature. Long term homelessness is such a complex issue that there are no silver bullets. We can only hope to help on a case-by-case basis and an individual level.

When I volunteered with a few organizations working with homeless, I was stunned to hear make talk about personal freedom they enjoy. To me that seemed almost incomprehensible, but to them it was plain as day - if they conform to the society, they will lose the freedom to do whatever they want...

This perspective is often overlooked, but it is one our country is built upon - personal choice. We should always provide a way back to society, but if the person doesn't want it, and stays within the confines of the law, who are we to judge him/her for it.