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It's sad that this is illegal. They're not doing anything wrong and it's their tax payer dollars that built those tunnels anyway. The depths of New York belong to the people.

"But it's not safe". What is? In the USA 40,000 die each year from car accidents, 700+ children from drowning, 1 million+ from cancer and heart disease. If going down there wasn't illegal they'd be able to have lighting, security, and other safety measures to make it even more safe.

(btw, this is totally the type of place that Stefon would suggest on SNL)



False dichotomy. Life isn't and can't be completely safe. But abandoned structures are considerably more dangerous than much of life (with the exception of car travel, which there's a cultural bias that leads people to ignore the risks of. Frankly you have to be crazy to get in a car in this day and age, but that's another argument). Building codes and fire escape requirements exist for a reason; sooner or later a lot of people will die at an event much like this one. It's unfortunate that there's no way to legally accept the risks of something dangerous, but it would be very difficult to make such a thing legally rigorous (if you can come up with a good proposal it will have my support).


You don't even have to be in the car. You have to be crazy to even go near a street.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/8-hurt-some-seriously-when-ca...


It all comes down to who has liability when some drunk kid gets injured or killed in there. When it's illegal and difficult to access, the government has no reasonable expectation to keep it safe, and has no liability.


Can it be illegal without penalties? There are a few laws that forbid the public from doing things (riding electric scooters on the sidewalk) but don't have any penalties associated with the act. Nor do the police enforce them.

Plus I doubt the city could get sued for not cementing the place shut. Is the state of Florida sued for not fencing off the ocean every time someone swims out in the Atlantic and gets caught by rip tides and dies? It's reasonable to expect every citizen to avoid abandoned buildings and enter at their own risk.


unfortunately if you drown off the coast of a public beach the state is in fact liable unless they clearly posted warnings and/or told you not to go in the water. This is why so many beaches have giant signs with warnings or even completely closed with no trespassing signs. If there is no warning and someone dies the owner/manager of the beach is responsible for the death through negligence for not placing a rip tide warning. If there is a clear warning or no trespassing sign then there is no liability because you did not head the warnings or entered illegally. http://masglp.olemiss.edu/Water%20Log/WL24/24.2rip.htm


"There are a few laws that forbid the public from doing things (riding electric scooters on the sidewalk) but don't have any penalties associated with the act. Nor do the police enforce them."

In New York City they absolutely do. I've seen lots of tickets given for regular and electric bicycles, and I've seen one delivery-guy's electric bicycle confiscated for just that.


If the city could make a buck off of it they'd have no problem. Problem being that once it's officially ok'd by the city - the city becomes liable for everything. Hell if anything happened to one of the partiers the city might be sued anyway for not sealing the place up.


If it wasn't illegal it wouldn't be fun, would it? It would just be a normal club with slightly unusual decor and weird acoustics.


I've had plenty of fun at those.


Their taxpayer dollars? The ruins look considerably older than the attendees. Did they invent some kind of timewarp?

If going down there wasn't illegal they'd be able to have lighting, security, and other safety measures to make it even more safe.

'be able to have' != 'actually supply', not by a long shot.


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People fall into oncoming traffic everyday. Does that mean we need to build fences around every road? When will the babysitting end? At what point? Each human being is responsible for the risk they're willing to take. From driving to plastic surgery to crossing the street. This is no more risky than the deadly side effects of most of today's pharmaceutical concoctions.


This is actually a pretty well-covered aspect of liability law. Each party has to take reasonable care to mitigate risk. It's not the kind of problem that you are making it out to be, and there's a huge body of case law establishing what is reasonable and what isn't.




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