Living in a city that this administration has constantly been attacking forced me and my wife, as well as many of our neighbors, to put off our family growth plans. Not only did many of my neighbors lose their jobs, but others are simply fearful of living their lives.
We're fine financially, have housing, etc, but at this point why would we go through the stress of raising a child when a masked federal agent might jump out and disappear our friends, family, or nanny who could be watching them?
And that is before we even get into the potentially disastrous child healthcare decisions and regulation rollbacks.
It's an unfortunate time to be trying to grow a healthy family, IMO.
Many of our family's friends have already left back to their home countries (bringing their own families with them). Risk/reward calculation has abruptly changed. The risk to your life and livelihood is not worth it, and the reward of living in the US has been steadily declining.
The goal is to rile the base and distract from the fact that there is no improvement in cost of living, healthcare, education, etc... tourism is down, farmers are losing their farms en masse, etc... It was trans people yesterday, Somalians today, and it will be someone else tomorrow. If that wasn't bad enough, it's clear the president and other powerful men (of both parties) were engaged in an international child sex trafficking ring. It's all a distraction and there are enough hateful Americans for it to work for now.
It's not "a distraction". It's serving their constituents. No good people support the Republicans, their primary voter base are just a bunch of hopped-up xenophobes who hate people who aren't like them because they've never met anybody who isn't from their inbred town.
If anything, from a democracy angle it's almost admirable how committed to answering the demands of their base the Right is in America. Pedophile billionaires get their desires met, racist yokels from flyover states get their dreams delivered, the war hawks, all of them.
We need to stop deluding ourselves into thinking "oh, the constituency on the right would be horrified if they just knew better". They wouldn't be them if they knew better. They are simply worse people, and the actions of the government are directly appealing to their worst desires.
> No good people support the Republicans, their primary voter base are just a bunch of hopped-up xenophobes who hate people who aren't like them because they've never met anybody who isn't from their inbred town. ... They are simply worse people...
You should apply to the DNC to help with their messaging efforts, clearly they're missing an important voice!
There's like what, 15 to 20% of americans actively trying to trigger rapture? You've got a lot of religious nuts in your country, and they really are bad people.
Clearly you also learned the messaging principles so clearly demonstrated in the great Basket of Deplorables debacle of 2016. Maybe you can be GGP's deputy.
Anyway, do you have a source for that? My understanding of American evangelical protestant theology is that they don't view rapture as triggerable in nature. Not being one, I can't state that confidently, so I'd love to see your source for your stats, and understand your definition of what it is they feel they can do to trigger rapture.
It doesn’t even matter anymore, being anything less than a full citizen puts you at risk. In my community, we have a bunch of Nepalese people whose TPS is going to expire and they are going to be deported. Not far away is Springfield, where a community of Haitians, who are mostly liked by the people in their community, and who even the Republican governor is asking the administration not to deport, have seen their TPS expire.
There are a lot of non-criminals who are here legally, but still very concerned about their future. If I were one of the Haitians in Springfield, I would be looking for another country to take me in.
Every one of them are legal permanent residents who don't feel welcome here anymore. Some are afraid they're one mistaken identity away from ending up black bagged and sent to El Salvador.
We're now heading in the same direction -- will take more time than I would like to work it out, for various reasons, but this is no longer a country where I want to raise my kids (despite us being citizens and having the "right" color skin), and as much as I want to be hopeful for change it's really hard to see the damage being undone any time soon.
I certainly don’t agree with the things the administration is doing, but this seems like just hysteria. You are putting off your family growth plans because they might deport a theoretical future undocumented nanny? It is strange to me how generalized partisan fear has become.
I guess you don't live in Minneapolis, or another targeted metro area. It is hard to imagine what it is like to live in a city where 3000 masked and poorly trained people cos-playing special forces are specifically tasked with arresting as many people as they can and told that they have full immunity.
you haven't seen the effect on schools when federal agents enter school grounds and take kids away.
you haven't seen my parent's nursing home sending the senior leadership outside the building to look for patrols before they let the staff leave (the staff is all legal/greencard holders, but see note above -- ICE doesn't care).
It's not hysteria when it is your every day lived experience.
For me, it's not just that -- I don't live in Minneapolis -- but it's the sinking realization that half the country literally voted for this and is either ok or indifferent, so long as we are maintaining our "true (WASP) American culture". Call me naive, but it has come as a pretty big shock to me that Trump has exposed just how rotten a good fraction of Americans are -- and that's before even getting into the removal of climate change action (something I care very deeply about because it concerns my children's future), cuts to science, healthcare and higher education, foreign policy (admittedly, the US has always been a bully, but it's even worse now), clear attempts to rig the upcoming elections, etc. etc.
Don't be ridiculous, talking about "partisan fear". They have taken away documented, American citizens without due process.
When armed men can take you out of your home or your car and whisk you away without a judicial warrant and without due process, it is very reasonable to be afraid.
It’s really not. Define taken away. They’ve absolutely detained some citizens, then let them go.
And again, not defending what they are doing, they are awful,but you are probably more likely to be hit by lightning than you are to have any of your family planning go wrong because of them if you are a full citizen. (If you are undocumented here right now, yeah, totally.)
Hysterical people think they are being rational and stuff like this is exactly what they say.
> They’ve absolutely detained some citizens, then let them go.
That is taken away.
Someone in my network - a US citizen - was detained, taken to a city 3 hours away, and held for 10 days before being released. Was quite a while before her family knew where she was.
If you're an American who is visibly Hispanic, it's not at all hysterical. If you're in one of those cities, you do have to worry whether you'll return home when you leave your house.
> you are probably more likely to be hit by lightning
I get that you're trying to rationalize this scenario, but this line is completely false. If there was a nation-wide wave of aviation terrorism, it would not be appropriate to say that you're "more likely to be hit by lightning" than risk your life in a plane. The situation has changed, and they're not being hysterical for observing the trends and adjusting accordingly.
Lightning has a relatively static chance of hitting you. The likelihood of feds accidentally executing you in your hometown is on the rise, and we don't know when it will stop climbing.
Do you really think you have a holographic sign floating above you that tells them you are a citizen? How are you sure you are above suspicion to be an undocumented immigrant? Could you prove you aren't if some goons decided to pick you off the street right now or next time you go for a walk?
All this is about expanding the reach and normalizing abuse of the power of law enforcement, just like back then after 9/11.
It's like Germany in the 1930s again when Jews were required to wear a yellow star on their clothes, but the other way round.
If one can't even aspire to use a small portion of their dual tech sector incomes to illegally underpay someone to ensure they must sacrifice neither sleep nor income in the raising of their own children, well, then, the American dream is well and truly dead for all.
These neighborhoods are high income, predominantly white, and filled with families.
My oldest has come home terrified because he turned a corner while playing outside and physically bumped in a guardsman carry a rifle.
I get it that some of you don't live in places that are immediately impacted by this administration, but some of us have to confront this on a daily basis.
I just read both articles and I think his summary is accurate enough to stand behind his claim that putting off having children (if you want them) because of a theoretical situation qualified as 'hysterical' (assuming everyone in your household is authorized). I don't think he was replying in bad faith, even if you two disagree.
People who are hysterical never think (and will not accept) that they are. They think their response is rational and everyone else it’s ignorant or stupid or evil. It’s the exact same as what goes on on the other side when people talk about how Dems want “trans for everyone”.
It’s an irrational, emotional response so it can’t be fought with logic. It seems 100% obvious to them since ICE is doing so much bad stuff (which I agree, they are) that anyone who doesn’t think it’s quite at Gestapo levels is crazy.
I don’t usually engage because what they need is deprogramming, and I don’t know how to do it, and even if I did I would assume you can’t bell a stranger in the HN comment section.
I was not replying in bad faith, I just find it interesting that the brains of so many people, even intelligent ones, have been turned this way in recent years. I see it in here often. I’m sure if I read /r/kidrock I’d see it there too.
I also have just read both articles and think the opposite: We've got accountability-free, armed, masked, criminal thugs acting with impunity:
- Taking face scans of peaceful protestors and retaliating against them later;
- Racially profiling citizens and harassing them if they have the "wrong" skin color -- including local cops!
- Visiting the homes of citizens who have civilly and legally criticized ICE behavior online, to intimidate them;
- Invading homes without warrants and destroying evidence of their crimes (jamming wifi, covering up cameras, arresting and deporting witnesses, etc).
- Arresting people who came here legally, are here legally, and have not committed a crime in their lives, then unilaterally revoking their prior legal authorization and rapidly deporting them and their whole family;
- Raiding schools: kidnapping children and sending them off to torture prisons, while traumatizing the rest of the children (and assaulting some of the children too -- grown-ass men beating up children smh);
- Assaulting innocent, peaceful people for protesting them, whether citizen or not, whether legally here or not, including deploying chemical agents against them;
- Performing summary executions in the streets of unarmed citizens who are helping their community but do not support said masked, armed thugs;
- Etc etc etc
You'd have to be hysterical (or some other form of mentally unwell) to not let that affect your judgement of the wisdom of bringing young children into that world to be victims of it. Unfortunately, such hysterical, mentally unwell deniers never think (and will not accept) that they are. It’s an irrational, emotional dismissal, so it can’t be fought with logic. What they need is deprogramming, and I don’t know how to do it.
I just find it interesting that the brains of so many people in the minority, even intelligent ones, have been turned this way in recent years. I see it here somewhat often (roughly in proportion to the minority they represent). They just cannot process, much less accept, that most people do not agree with them, and are not hysterical and mentally unwell like them.
op had kids before the Nazis started taking over, but police were still performing routine executions, America had invaded several countries to execute their leadership, we live in a capitalist society...
All people hold inconsistent views. We are squishy meatbags.
That said, is this an example of that? Instead of declaring it so, try posing a question like "what is different about this time?" to a member of the majority you believe are holding 'inconsistent views'. You might learn that your prior assumptions were reductive, for example.
Also beyond the hysteria, you can’t post two paywalled articles and then assume bad faith on the part of any reply. My summary is based on what little I can see, though I doubt a full examination would make any sane person rethink their fertility planning.
I am with you, it is a scary time. I have to remind myself that we have gone through worst times. My grandfather grew up in a ranch, at 22, along with his extended family and friends, they took arms and joined a revolution, they overthrew a dictator. They fought on the back of a horse for years. It was a rough life, but they endured, and here I am. Enjoying a life so comfortable that would be unimaginable for them. You cannot stop moving in life because things can go wrong.
With all due respect, but this extremely biased and US-centric view. IT was not easier to have kids in 2024 or 2023, both in the EU or US. Childcare is expensive, pace of life today (and the past 20 years at least) implicitly treats kids as a liability and a detriment to career progression and financial security.
Sure, and I understand that. My point was that it was hard financially to have kids even before Trump was elected. Moreover, there are plenty of places in the US with no/little ICE activity, and it is still hard to afford kids today, a year, or three years ago.
that's an average of ~ 1 shooting every 4 school days (across ~ 120,000 schools)
that is not incredibly rare; you can try to rationalize it, but if you're a parent and your kid is going to school every day for 12 years, that's about 3000 opportunities for this rare event to happen to them
If I'm computing this correctly, that's approximately 4 * 120,000 = 1 / 480,000 chance of it happening on any given day, or a 1 / 160 chance of it happening to your child in the course of their lifetime; compare that with a 1 / 15300 chance of getting struck by lightening over your lifetime, or a 1 in 800,000,000 chance of dying in a plane crash (this is according to Gemini, I didn't research these numbers thoroughly).
And yet, look how much effort we put into airplane safety.
> existed 25 years ago too
sure, but it's so much worse: [1]
55 shootings in the '70s
80 in the '80s
157 in the '90s
121 in the '00s
260 in the '10s
312 so far in the '20s
the fact that we know this has been a problem for 50 years and instead of doing something about it, the problem is actually getting worse. All so that some grown men can play with their guns (please don't tell me that it's about 2A ability to "resist tyranny"; that hasn't been true for a very long time)
It's not shootings per child that matters, it's shootings per _school_.
I don't want my child to be traumatized by a school shooting on their school even if they themselves are not killed. That's pretty basic. If multiple people were shot and killed at your workplace, how would you feel about continuing to go there? You think that survivors of a plane crash where other people on the plane died are ready to get back on a plane the next day because "the chances of it happening again are small"?
And I don't care whether it's targeted gang violence or some other type of shooting, it's still an event where someone with a gun is on the school and kills one or more people.
What a bizarre comment. Who cares about their genetic line? Are you evolution itself? Do you have stakes in making sure your genes make it to the future?
A weird comment to make to someone who already has children, but I guess at least we can all be happy that my kids are being raised by parents that can read?
Given that I.C.E. has been allowed to stop people just for not looking white enough, and even white citizens have been shot for being "near" I.C.E. operations, I would suggest that it is not safe to assume someone is not a citizen, just because I.C.E. makes them feel unsafe in their neighborhood.
Agreed. You are not alone, all of us see what's going on, and it only takes a few bad actors that are highly motivated to cause the craziness you see on display here.
Regular, normal people are still in the majority, we just need to acknowledge each other and not let the propagandists flood the zone.
I will remove that accusation in the interests of not distracting from my main point. I don't know you and the particulars of your situation and apologize for an unsupported insinuation.
You link to an October 2025 article documenting 9 "Kavanaugh stops" to somehow claim that they don't happen?
You link to an article that is "We Found That More Than 170 U.S. Citizens Have Been Held by Immigration Agents. They’ve Been Kicked, Dragged and Detained for Days." and which has reporting inside that describes the 170 cases of ICE detaining citizens.
Note that detainment is more severe and different from the harassment of the 9 that you somehow claim refute Kavanaugh stops.
But even if the article were as you incorrectly describe it, it would be fallacious to say that because a single article doesn't describe something, it doesn't exist! That's a critical thinking and logic 101 error. And far far below the standards of HN comments.
If you read the footnotes in the article, it is apparent that somewhere between 0 and 9 of the incidents described are Kavanaugh stops. The article is trying to play up the situation in order to cater to their audience, but they have sufficient journalistic integrity to tell the truth amidst the spin.
Yes, there may be more of them, but in this particular article that was the most that they could find, and they were clearly trying to find them -- they even include 130 stops that they themselves say are of people who were obstructing or interfering with ICE operations. This is not good, but it's a pretty far cry from bystanders being harassed on the sidewalk for having an accent or the wrong skin color.
Link me a better source that describes or accounts the number of these stops and I'll update my comments and move my priors appropriately.
ICE threatens everyone, regardless of citizenship. They daily detain citizens without even bothering to ask "papers please". They menace and threaten and intimidate people just out and about in the neighborhood.
The ICE raids have little to do with immigration, they are a secret police force meant to cause terror in communities with their lawless violence. It is a politically driven attack on a state that had the audacity not to vote for Trump, nothing more.
> They menace and threaten "people just out and about in the neighborhood"? It is hard to engage in good faith when you are baldly making statements that are completely unsupported.
There are no shortage of videos showing ICE agents on roaming patrols in Minnesota -- and elsewhere -- menacing anyone they come across who appears undesirable. All you have to do is not look away.
Would you mind linking to some of the videos? You link here to an episode of This American Life featuring 911 calls.
While disturbing to listen to, without context, I don't hear anything to substantiate the claim of ICE agents menacing anyone they come across.
All the videos I've seen, [1], [2], [3], for example, from a quick check, are ICE reacting unprofessionally and with excessive force against people who are deliberately attempting to obstruct or interfere with them. Let's not play games here and say that they are menacing innocent people walking down the sidewalk. That's not to say that these assaults are justified or appropriate, but let's start the conversation in a good faith position, and not make up bullshit about ICE walking around menacing innocent bystanders.
I can't find an original source on the first one. To my eye it is ambiguous in the sense that he does appear to be taunting the officers or otherwise engaging with them. I may be mistaken here but without larger context it's hard to say. Taunting or insulting law enforcement is not a crime and does not warrant the notice of officers, much less confrontation or pursuit or detention. But what we are talking about here is whether people are in danger simply walking down the street.
There is a line where this becomes truly frightening behavior; where you have to keep your head down and avoid eye contact because they might fly off the handle for no reason, like crazy homeless people on the subway but with badges. So far I haven't seen anything approaching this.
The second one is [1] Jacelynn Guzman, age 23, who was mistakenly identified as part of a targeted immigration enforcement action. She fled the scene after agents approached her and identified themselves. A suspect who flees is likely to be chased -- this does not seem strange or off-putting to me at all. I think notable, for what its worth, is that they did not ask her father for ID or question his citizenship in any way; they were there for a targeted operation and he was not the target, so they left him alone while they attempted to verify the identity of the suspect that they were targeting.
For anybody looking on, this sort of Big Lie behavior is extremely common in the US these days. All that crazy stuff Europeans are seeing with JD Vance and Trump's Greenland behvaior is what everyday Americans experience on a wide range of topics.
Having somebody link to a source that directly refutes their own claims, while acting indignant, is something I've experienced multiple times in the past week! It's quite shocking.
When the Trump administration went so hard on open lies that are directly contradicted by videos we all saw of ICE events, it was vice-signaling that started even greater amounts of bearing false witness. Openly lying seems to signal "in-group" status these days, like the sign in the green grocer's shop[1]. Get people to lie about the evidence they see with their eyes, and the become completely controlled, because to do so is to have total subservience to their master. No more eyes or ears except for those of their master. People that used to have values slowly abandon them, all in service to the lie that they are living. "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
That is the state of the US at the moment. I have hope that we can return to our former sanity, or at least ensure that the reigns of power are in the hands of normal, centrist people instead of the extreme fringes, but it is in no way certain.
For anybody looking on, THIS sort of Big Lie behavior is extremely common in the US these days.
Having a source that makes a false claim as a headline but refutes their own claims, while acting indignant, is extremely common in a media landscape that wants to signal their "in-group" status.
We're fine financially, have housing, etc, but at this point why would we go through the stress of raising a child when a masked federal agent might jump out and disappear our friends, family, or nanny who could be watching them?
And that is before we even get into the potentially disastrous child healthcare decisions and regulation rollbacks.
It's an unfortunate time to be trying to grow a healthy family, IMO.
ETA: I already have children.