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So this is bad, obviously, but I want to plug Valisure and consumerlab both. For whatever reason there’s so little testing out there for both generic drugs and vitamins and supplements, and both of these guys really do have our backs. I’m very happy to support both to be doing what I feel like the FDA with more funding should be doing themselves.


There's a good book called bottle of lies that talks about how overwhelmed the FDA is and how often many products slip through the cracks, including generic medicines.


Intentionally overwhelmed. Lawmakers and the revolving door heads don't actually want regulation to work.


In 2019, the FDA budget was 0.86% of the DOD budget.

As in, not within two orders of magnitude.


A contextless number doesn’t mean much. Maybe that’s enough? Too much? Too little? The FDA doesn’t need to buy billion dollar aircraft carriers, they need to pay people salaries and equip them to investigate, test, read papers, and set standards.


You make a strong argument for the FDA to get its own fleet of aircraft carriers and probably ground support as well. I bet they'd have many fewer enforcement issues. Then again the optics of the FDA sending a nuke to a company that is non-compliant in it's handling of medical grade radioactive isotopes might be a little bad.


We have serious problems with pharmaceutical pricing, access, and regulation in the United States. Let's not pretend that we have saturated the costs of all necessary pharmaceutical regulation, nor that all of our aircraft carriers are necessary.

Here's a list of words to google next to "FDA" as a search term if you want to know where some of the deficiencies lie:

  Sackler
  Epi-pen
  Insulin
  Shkreli
  Kickbacks
  Vioxx
  Lobbying


Absolutely, agreed.


It means our government prioritizes spending on war over two orders of magnitude more than the safety of its own citizens.


No it doesn't. I spend more on coffee than I do on water. That doesn't mean I "prioritize coffee over water". It means that I don't need to spend as much on water to get what I need.


If you spend over a hundred times as much on coffee than on water every month, and you find yourself chronically under-hydrated, then you may indeed prioritize coffee over water.

Coffee contains water, which makes this a strange analogy. Just saying.

The observation that you are trying to refute is that the FDA falls short of accomplishing its mission and receives remarkably less funding than other agencies of the government that also intend to ensure the safety and well-being of Americans.

In fact, about half of the FDA's funding comes from drug companies. That seems strange considering how the FDA is supposed to regulate those very companies.


I didn't know about Valisure and consumerlab, but have used Labdoor before buying something new.

Strongly agree this field of testing/validation is desperately needed.


This seems to be true across markets and regulatory levels.

For example, browser extensions must be analyzed by neutral third parties because the code can not be trusted to be persistently safe with each new publication.

This is similar to different formulations across batches in sunscreen.

I’ve noticed in consumer products like backpacks, the hardware (zipper pulls, etc) can sometimes vary in the same brand and model. The company does not outwardly acknowledge variability, and it is not discussed in product reviews.

Apple made changes to its Secure Enclave Component unusually in fall 2020. [1]

Not every update of every product is going to contain a shocker. But with the rate of releases and rapid adoption of physical and virtual consumer products, we could use less unboxing and more hard analysis of what is shipping and it’s potential for harm.

[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/12/apple-made-security-cha...


I haven't looked into Labdoor in a while but many years ago they weren't very reputable, they had questionable testing methodology and their scoring was heavily weighted just based on what ingredients were in a product and ignored the claims of a labels accuracy.

Did they improve their process over the years or just marketing and brand recognition?


> I’m very happy to support both to be doing what I feel like the FDA with more funding should be doing themselves.

IMHO, I prefer an organization like Valisure over the FDA any day. Democratic governments must represent all of their constituents which means there will always be a path (pressure groups, fundraising, etc.) for corporate interests to get outcomes they want under the guise of lobbying their representatives.

When the organization doing the checking is actually independent and setup for the sole purpose of their mission I personally feel much more confident in the findings.


Except Valisure has no responsibility to answer to anyone but themselves and their own financial interests, and has no mandate from congress or ability to respond to legislated guidelines.

They so far seem like “the good guys” but Id far rather find a way to have a public institution be able to do this without worries as to profit or sustainability.


On the other hand, there is a parallel thread [1] showing the problems with blindly trusting private interests for regulation and law enforcement.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27295320


Why can't they lobby Valisure?


there’s so little testing

Seriously. It seems like even relatively loose QC would run full a full chemical composition analysis on the occasional random batch.




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