It's a discussion. If I saw someone on the street wearing these, it's not like I'd go up to them and be like "why did you waste your money on those?".
Anyway, the issue for me is that these are supposed to be audiophile/professional grade headphones - something you buy explicitly because you want the best audio quality. If you need these in the first place, then it's worth doing 20 minutes of research to see if it's the best quality for your money, or even in general.
I hate to say it, but I agree with the comments that mention these being more of a status symbol than anything. There's nothing wrong with that either, but that's the reality. I mean, they are pretty much guaranteed to perform worse than high end Sennheisers while still costing more, so what else could it be?
I find the argument of "I need professional grade headphones to do my job, but don't have the time to research the best option" just disappointing I guess.
I own AirPods Pro myself, but those are intended for a different market and are actually a decent value (compared to the Sony which has better sound quality but worse integration with Apple stuff).
> Anyway, the issue for me is that these are supposed to be audiophile/professional grade headphones - something you buy explicitly because you want the best audio quality.
No, they are not.
It's unlikely professionals are buying any wireless headphones and professionals definitely don't want/ need ANC.
These are headphones for people who want good quality sound and value the other features these offer. If you don't find the other features these offer appealing, they aren't worth the money.
Almost every criticism of these pits them against top end wired audiophile headphones... that's not what these are primarily competing against.
> Anyway, the issue for me is that these are supposed to be audiophile/professional grade headphones - something you buy explicitly because you want the best audio quality. If you need these in the first place, then it's worth doing 20 minutes of research to see if it's the best quality for your money, or even in general.
This is where you’re wrong. That’s not the audience they’re targeting. Their target is Apple users bought into the ecosystem who may or may not use AirPods. If they see an Apple made headphone, they implicitly trust it to be not crap and hardy even if it may not compare well to the competitors. Your passionate arguments for why there are cheaper alternatives don’t matter, this has been the same argument for a lot of Apple made products. They are one of the few companies on the market that has demonstrated a commitment to quality (for a premium, of course) for the masses. Their brand is very very strong.
I am not an audiophile and I don’t care to be. I like AirPods and my first reaction to this was: oh nice, my Bose headphones are pretty old. These look quite pricy but it’s Apple, I trust that I’ll get a fairly reliable product that looks beautiful and works really well with my phone (no custom janky apps).
I can't even imagine why my response sounded "upset".
> someone who isn’t being thrifty and researching every little thing out with spreadsheets.
No, I don't think spreadsheets are required. I probably wouldn't spend $600 on something that doesn't seem like it usually costs that much without reading a couple of reputable reviews first, or maybe checking to see if the features I want exist in a popular cheaper brand. OP isn't doing this because OP isn't buying the headphones to fulfill any need, but because they "trust apple". It's bizarre and hard to understand for anybody who isn't used to thinking of $600 as pocket change, I guess.
> I’ll probably get these for the same reason as the parent; I vaguely want some air pods but I haven’t got around to it and I prefer this form factor.
This was the part that confused me. OP has AirPods and AirPods pro and claims that he loves both. The part I don't get is blindly dropping $600 to buy something that doesn't even solve a problem for you. Apple puts it out, OP buys because it's an apple product.
> I trust apple not to sell useless knockoff rubbish in a shiny box. My relationship with them is no more complex than that.
This is the part that DOES upset me.
You think Apple never made useless rubbish? As we speak I'm typing this on a piece of shit 2019 MB Pro issued by my job. It sucks. Bad design (no ports, no magsafe, no escape key).
> It doesn’t affect you. They’re not telling you to do it.
Sure it does. This religious consumerism is favouring one of the biggest polluters on earth, with products that are as hard to repair as possible. And the favorism it's not even warranted: Apple produced a bunch of crap over the years. But zealots just ignore that.
And not only has this a negative effect on our shared resources, many people also plainly abhor when other people refuse to think.
You have a good point regarding pollution and repair policy, however you claim they have produced a bunch of crap over the years. Are you saying some of their products haven't been up to snuff? Or everything they produce is crap?
Also, the comment about people refusing to think is a bit obtuse, don't you think? Assuming that people who buy Apple products don't think is a ridiculous claim. At least recognize that those people might have a different calculus for their purchasing choices.
It's nuts how much toxicity there is around Apple.
> Are you saying some of their products haven't been up to snuff? Or everything they produce is crap?
Some. They also make good stuff. But look at Louis Rossman's Youtube channel, he rants about the common defects in the bad Apple products better than I could.
> Also, the comment about people refusing to think is a bit obtuse, don't you think? Assuming that people who buy Apple products don't think is a ridiculous claim
It was the nice variant of what I was trying to say ;) The mechanisms of Apple fanboyism work like a religion or a cult, and that's not a novel thought by me. In that context it's not absurd, it really is what happens: People buy these products often enough without an ounce of thought, it's religious conviction and our primate brain wanting to signal status. Not always of course, but often enough. And that does produce the negative reaction in others -> parent was asking.
This cuts both way though. You can see it in this thread and any other thread with Apple in the title - people bashing the product without ever even trying it out. They do so without an ounce of thought. It's religious conviction and our primate brain wanting to signal status.
I see a lot of well founded criticism of the price point and the praise that it gets before it gets reviews, backlash against the "I will buy that" comments. Wouldn't equate that.
And it looks like you are implying comments like mine are made without thought, which would be neither nice nor correct.
I assume this was meant to reply to a different comment?
Just in case: I did not say that people care about how things work. You get in every category Apple sells products in other products that are more affordable, do not suck and look good. Besides, many people buy Apple products that they can not afford, that's part of the problem.
People using 9-year-old laptops happily probably aren't agreeing with "Apple produced a bunch off crap over the years." There are plenty of things to dislike about Apple, but their products tend to outlast competitors, having very long lifespans. That helps to mitigate their non-repairability, though it doesn't eliminate it.
Really makes you wonder how these delusional claims are being peddled all over this thread - especially when you can easily find fully functional 10 to 15 year old Lenovos and Dells across the enterprise world. They purchased some obscure chinese brands from Amazon one time and concluded this is what life outside of Apple is like.
It really is astonishing, isn't it? Here you have a company with scandal after scandal regarding their bad long term durability - batteries being neutered, keyboards with keys that break, laptop displays that disconnect, unibodies that aren't unibodies, laptop coolers that don't cool -, embarassingly bad repairability and expandability across their product range, and that has one of the worst warranty programs of all of them. And for one inexplicable reason (stockholm syndrom? No experience with other products? Status thinking as the sole decider on what is good?) people still claim that stuff. That's also where the cult classification is coming from.
I mentioned 2011, which is well before the nasty keyboards.
You guys are spending a lot of effort to respond to things I didn't say, including anything at all about competitors. Sony Vaio laptops probably hold their value longest, AFAIK, but that doesn't mean Apple laptop haven't traditionally held value quite well.
Funny that you mentioned VAIO, because that was the last in a succession of crappy machines that bit the dust within a year before I finally bought a Macbook Air 9 years ago. It's still going. As is the 2009 Mac Mini I got from eBay in which I just upgraded the RAM and hard drive (to an SSD).
It's a similar story for me with smartphones. My first was a Droid X2. After about 9 months I switched to an iPhone 4 and used it for the next 5 years. Then upgraded to a 6s which I only retired for an 11 Pro last year because work bought it for me. They all work fine today.
I babied every Dell/Sony machine and that Droid just like every Apple product I've purchased since; this is just the proof I've found in the pudding after eating both kinds.
Yet somehow these products that are ‘as hard to repair as possible’, outlast all their competitors by years, are highly recyclable, and receive Greenpeace’s top rating.
I very much doubt you can find anything to substantiate your claim that Apple is one of the biggest polluters on earth.
They feel uncomfortable that the person above can shell that money on stuff that is slightly more than what they can afford. They then need to rationalise their decision that they made the best choice.
If I make $50 an hour, I am not going to waste 8+ hours searching and doing spreadsheets to figure out 'what is the best for the money' because I am already losing 50$ per hour. The new pair that is 'cheaper' costs as much as the device itself + as much as I 'paid' searching for it.
If it isn't my hobby, there is no reason to waste time on it.
I'm only interpreting here (not judging). But I think s/he means you're spending a lot of time justifying the position that expediency is what's important, which is ironic.
I see. I gave the explanation because I experienced it and understand where it comes from. I am not particularly affluent, and therefore I often need to make the 'best for the buck' decisions, that also includes buying books and whatnot. I know that had I been affluent, I'd spent more on my hobbies over minmaxing.
> Why are so many people upset by this?
> It’s like they have some kind visceral reaction to seeing someone who isn’t being thrifty and researching every little thing out with spreadsheets.
It doesn’t affect you. They’re not telling you to do it.
Would you pay $100 for a 100MB usb drive? Would you not react and try to dissuade a friend from making a purchase you recognize to be ill-considered?
It’s your money, do what you want, but people are upset because there are (probably, since we dont know yet) better options that don’t have an Apple pricetag. The purchase would be based on complacency with a brand, and not conformity to rational principles and knowledge.
Few have already posted that they would buy this because it’s Apple, in order to avoid 1-2 hours of research. I really hope these aren’t the same people complaining about how terrible capitalism is.
I mean that's basically Yubikey. There are cheaper alternatives for the actual product and a browser-based password manager and a sw authenticator on your phone gives you all the same phishing and security benefits for $0.
I'm not about to be upset that someone still wants a Yubikey though.
It’s like they have some kind visceral reaction to seeing someone who isn’t being thrifty and researching every little thing out with spreadsheets.
It doesn’t affect you. They’re not telling you to do it.
If you want to get a better deal by doing the research then do it.
I’ll probably get these for the same reason as the parent; I vaguely want some air pods but I haven’t got around to it and I prefer this form factor.
I trust apple not to sell useless knockoff rubbish in a shiny box. My relationship with them is no more complex than that.