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Before graduating from Waterloo, I had the opportunity to work in three different countries (Canada, USA, Japan), on everything from web services to embedded C. While I was a good student, and I doubt that I would have had any trouble finding a job with or without co-op, getting the breadth of experience was incredibly valuable - this would be something much harder to get after graduating.

I generally dislike competition of school brands (ie. Waterloo vs. Toronto), because I am fairly certain that education is 95% work ethic. The co-op program I firmly believe is exceptional, however.


Alright, I am convinced that Waterloo students get more joy out of doing four four-month jobs than Toronto students get out of doing one eighteen-month job.

What I'm not convinced of is the resulting value-add to the student's career. The way I see it, the best things you can do to your career, in order of bestness:

1. Graduate as quickly as possible while freelancing summers, get the best job you can, quit after 18 months and get another different job to experience some diversity.

2. Take a year off in your 3rd year, work at a startup, then do the rest as #1.

3. Do an 18 month PEY term while being a student, get as much valuable experience out of it as you can, then graduate quickly and do the rest as #1.

4. Do four 4 month coop terms while being a student, experience as much diversity as you can, have as much fun as you can, then do the rest as #1.

5. Take a year or two to travel while being a student, have as much fun as you can, start collecting a jar of wisdom, then do the rest as #1.


> "quit after 18 months and get another different job to experience some diversity"

You really can't sample very much after you graduate. Let's be honest, in almost all places in this industry, hopping around every 1-1.5 years looks ugly after a while. You can pull it off once or twice before it starts reflecting in your interviews.

That's the point other posters are making - more, shorter co-op terms is basically the penalty-free way of job-hopping and sampling everything. It's also a way of rapidly expanding your professional network and filling it with people who can vouch for your work.


I can only speak for myself, but my 4-month coop terms are the only reason I managed to graduate. I studied computer engineering at UW, and it was more intense than anything I've had before or after university. I definitely would have burned out by third year without my coop terms.

It also helped that coop paid for everything: tuition, rent, food, etc. (Although, I don't smoke/drink/do drugs/drive/have expensive tastes...) I graduated with a net (albeit tiny) profit instead of the massive debt most students seem to end up with. An 18-month placement probably would have been financially equivalent, but I would have had to take on debt before my third(?) year to benefit. Judging from my friends in other programs, having money troubles or taking on jobs while in school is extremely stressful.

(Aside: One could argue that since I admit to struggling to get through without frequent rest that I am under-prepared for work, but having been in a full-time position for some time now, I can see that university was artificially intense. Nobody in "real life" expects the same rate of output. Although, now I feel somewhat under-challenged because I had just managed to get used to the amount of effort required to do well by the time I graduated!)


To be clear, unless they've changed it recently it is six four month co-op terms, not four. Also to be clear, students do frequently spend two co-op terms at the same company.

If you're really ambitious, nothing will hold back your career. An ambitious person will use co-op for exactly #1 and #2. A lot of (or at least many) people spend their six terms at six different start ups in NY, SF and other technology hubs, and meet a ton of people. The nice thing about being a student is that everyone just wants to help you, and you get a heck of a lot of business cards.

The reality is that there also a lot of people who are smart and get things done, but don't necessarily have the motivation or are too risk adverse to really reach out there and try things. Or some people still have a sense of loyalty, and once they've accepted a job they don't want to jump around every 18 months. Or after they graduate they are ready to start a family. The beauty of co-op is that it lets smart people experience a lot without needing that career ambition, and it exposes a lot of people to things that they would otherwise not get the opportunity to experience. This also inspires entrepreneurship, as people can tour software companies (and not software companies!) and really see what culture is like, what they like, what they don't.

Internships are great too, but the risk of an internship is that you end up with a bad placement. I had a friend who got a job as a tester (they lacked the self confidence and interview skills for something more), and that shattered them - they went from timid yet smart computer scientist to burned out in the 18 months (I am sure that there are people with great internships too). With co-op, there are bad placements, but you get many chances to get it right.


Broadway Technology - New York, NY and Austin, TX.

We're a small, fast moving and profitable ~40 person software company revolutionizing fixed income and foreign exchange trading software by creating a very fast trading platform for algorithms and people (to be clear - we’re a software company, not a hedge fund/trading firm). We are hiring top tier consultants and software engineers. Some opportunity to work remote, and profit sharing for the win! Apply at http://www.broadwaytechnology.com/careers


Would you consider fully remote applicants? I'm interested in trading systems development but don't live near those two locations.


Apply and mention it, I can't give you a definitive answer either way. We do have some people working as consultants in Europe (your other comments seem to suggest that you are living in Oslo?).


I worked as a developer there, conditions weren't much better. Frugality means cheap, and the turnover rate was just insane. A lot of the ones who stay are only staying because the stock price is so high right now making their options worth a lot. Really depressing, because upper management at Amazon is very very competent - they have a long term vision, and they are executing on it with a ton of energy. They just seem to have forgotten about the peasants along the way.


Broadway Technology, New York, NY (right by The Bull! Also right by Fog Creek).

We're a small, profitable ~40 company revolutionizing fixed income and foreign exchange trading by creating a very fast trading platform (don't worry though - we don't trade ourselves, we're very much a software company). We're hoping to grow a lot! Positions are available for developers as well as consultants! Some opportunity to work remote, also, profit sharing for the win. See http://www.broadwaytechnology.com/careers, and mention Hacker News if you decide to apply!


New York, NY - Broadway Technology

Profitable 40 person software company creating a successful trading platform for fixed income securities and others (we are not a hedge fund, we don't trade ourselves). Located right by The Bull on Broadway in Manhattan. Will sponsor TN-1, and some opportunity to work remote.

http://broadwaytechnology.com/careers


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